EVE Frontier Economic Policy Q&A and Cycle II Start!

EVE Frontier: Neue Wirtschaftsstrategien für Spieler-gesteuerte Märkte

CCP
- 06.03.25 - 01:12:13 - 4.222 - EVE Frontier

• Zusammenfassung
• Original

EVE Frontier implementiert ein Pseudo-Dual-Currency-System mit Hybrid-Pricing, um Stabilität und Spieler-Kontrolle zu gewährleisten. Ressourcenverfall und Blockchain-Integration fördern dynamische Märkte und komplexe Strategien. Spieler können eigene Währungen erschaffen und mit Smart Contracts interagieren. NDA wird gelockert, um Diskussionen zu ermöglichen.

EVE Frontier

00:00:00

00:00:00 Ich werde mich für eine Stunde und ich werde aufhören. Ich werde mich für eine Stunde und ich werde aufhören.

00:04:48 Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, friends, and welcome to another EVE Frontier livestream. I am, of course, your host, CCP Yoten. Thank you so much for joining us. It is a pleasure to have all of you here. We are once again live on CCP TV. Exciting, exciting to be out here, excited to be public, so I'm doing this thing. It's been a wild day, a wild day. Yes, we have so many faces, Snapco, on the screen currently, and let's go through them.

00:05:18 Quickly, I'm gonna do some introductions. I'm gonna let one person introduce another person. I rarely ever...

00:05:25 Ja, so should I just do that, or should I also just talk about why we are here? Yeah, you can do both.

00:05:54 Es ist gut, es ist gut. Ja, es ist sehr tief. Ja, wir sind hier, ja. Okay, so I have come down with a plague, I apologize for my voice. The Frontier is not only filled with Deadly Mooneeaters, but also some plagues that I have picked up. But we are now here at the dawn of a new cycle on the Frontier. So for those tuning in, this is a great time to start your adventure on the Frontier, because it's equal footing ground for everybody.

00:06:23 But why we are here today is that we are here to discuss the monetary framework of eFrontier. As people who have been following us know, we have put significant effort into creating a universe that is grounded in science. We have two astrophysicists on the team and we really want to put good effort into the foundational layer, which is the world itself and the stories that emerged there.

00:06:51 What will emerge from a universe filled with people trying to destroy each other is an economy. To have a robust economy for decades to come, we need a strong monetary framework. And in order to do that, we also need to have good talent on the team, just like we do when creating a universe. So joining us on the eFrontier team is CCP.

00:07:18 He comes from the Central Bank of Iceland, has been with us now since December and has been working hard on just creating something now to present to the players. And eFrontier, sorry, a bit of a spiel here, eFrontier has a new update today.

00:07:44 An economic update, which is based on this new monthly framework. And it is super important for us to discuss this with everybody because also of the EVE token and how that will flow through the economy. We really need the people that play Frontier to understand this and why it is important that this is the fuel of death and destruction for players for the future.

00:08:07 Oh, yeah. End of Spiel. Good Spiel. CCP Kalair, we were just talking before we came on, before we went live. You probably were not expecting to be trotted out here so quickly to dance around on the monkey stage with the rest of us. What is, how's it, what's it been like your first couple months here at CCP as the new Director of Economy for eFrontier?

00:08:29 Es ist eigentlich Head of Economy. Oh, Head of Economy. Oh, Head of Economy. Oh, what a distinction. No, because it's important for the lore of the nickname. Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, but so it's been very challenging. It's been a lot of new things to learn. Actually, my fiancée has been complaining that I have been leaving all the cupboards open and she has quite a few bruises on her head.

00:08:58 Ich bin einfach tief in die Gedanken gegangen, um mein Apartment zu gehen. Aber es hat sich sehr geniht und entschuldigt.

00:09:06 Thank you so much Chat for trying to come up with as many terrible puns as you can to celebrate the arrival of our very good friend CSP Kalira. But yeah, so this is what this is, friends. Today we're going to be talking about the economy of eFrontier. So just as a preface to build off of what CSP Goodfellas said just a moment ago, today is a big day for us. This is our 2.0 release of our Founder Access period. If you're not familiar with what Founder Access is, we've got a whole website. You can go check it out, eFrontier.com slash Founder Access. I'm not going to get into the details.

00:09:36 If you're here, chances are you probably know what's going on. If you don't know, use the power of reading. Take my word for it. It'll guide you through life. But we have a big expansion today. The big expansion today is focusing on new economic systems, new economic updates to Frontier. Obviously, the economy of Frontier, just like the economy of Evo Online, is a pivotal kind of central. It's important. If this thing doesn't work, the whole thing doesn't work. And we want to make sure that it's good. We want to make sure that it is fair and balanced.

00:10:05 Und das...

00:10:08 Das ist das, was das Stream ist. Das ist das das Founder Access Period. Das ist das, was das Founder Access Period ist all about. Wir sind transparente mit euch, besonders mit unseren Founders. Shout-out to Founders. Aber das ist das, was das Stream ist. Das ist das, was das Stream ist. Das ist das, was das Founder Access Period ist all about. Wir sind transparente mit euch, besonders mit unseren Founders. Shout-out to Founders. Aber das ist das, was wir auf die Kommunikation fühlen. Wir fühlen uns das Spiel. Wir fühlen uns das Spiel. Wir fühlen uns das Spiel. Wir fühlen uns das Spiel. Wir fühlen uns das Spiel.

00:10:37 Das ist wie das funktioniert, das Handgesture. So, ich werde das jetzt passen auf zu CCP Kalira. Wir haben eine Präsentation. Wir werden die Präsentation machen. Nach dem Präsentation haben wir einige Fragen, die wir von unseren Foundern haben. So, again, Shoutout Founders. Und wir werden diese durchführen. So, ohne weiter zu können, CCP Kalira, take es weg. Danke, Ben.

00:11:05 So, I'm going to try to keep this very high level. I'm not going to go into a lot of details. There's going to be no models. There's going to be no equations. But I'm going to start by talking about economic pillars that is a work in progress. But I think we're paging a lot of our decisions on.

00:11:35 Those are simplicity, trust, token utility, sustainability and player driven. And today I'll be talking slightly about simplicity. But on the right side you'll see what these pillars either promote or imply.

00:11:56 I think all of these things are extremely important for the health of the economy and they will feed into all our other decisions.

00:12:10 So, on simplicity, we just do the basics, is that we want the system to be as simple as possible, but no simpler, which is a near tautology, but I think it's a good one. This, for example, we can avoid picking winners or losers, because with complexity, you get a lot of levers, you can make a lot of minute decisions, and then you...

00:12:39 Es geht darum, zu entscheiden, zu gewinnen und zu gewinnen, die Leute, die nicht gerne, weil es unfair ist.

00:12:47 So we're aiming for parsimony without sacrificing functionality. And this is essentially what says that the complexity is not neutral. The economy becomes extremely complex, very easy to get into hyperinflation territory. So we aim for simplicity. And I like these examples. You can see that with simple rules, information symmetry.

00:13:16 You can get extremely complex behavior. And when there are human beings interacting, you will generally get a very complex system. So we will not aim at complexity with the economy, we will aim at simplicity and allow complexity to emerge. And that fits with the player-driven pillar. Slightly more on this. I've basically said this before just now, but there are also problems with...

00:13:46 mit dem System durch Statistik. Denn es gibt viel circularer Dependenz in der Ökonomie. Und die mehr Leveres du hast, die harder es wird, zu entscheiden, was es genau was. Und wir müssen wirklich wissen, was die Ökonomie in der Ökonomie ist. So wir können either avoid doing them again, oder fix it.

00:14:15 And there are also a lot of benefits to simplicity. It's much easier to plan, to see what's going to happen beforehand, and it's much easier to fix mistakes. This usually builds trust, and players have very clear incentives. Also, their expectations are more easily formed, so they don't have to worry about a lot of levers that CCP is going to pull. They maybe build their...

00:14:44 Ich kann nicht denken, dass das immer passiert ist, nicht einmal in der Geschichte. Ich würde sagen, es ist eher eine Foreseeable Sache.

00:15:09 Funktion of needless complexity. And there is a challenge to simplicity because you don't want to, it's important to say that we're not sacrificing functionality. So the trick is, and this is in all science, physics, everything, mathematics actually, where my background is, it's the biggest thing. You're trying to abstract as much as possible to find what is at the heart of the problem.

00:15:39 And there the trick lies, to make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

00:15:45 Also, mit Simplicity, we're encouraging the players to innovate. I'm really excited. What I look forward to most is to see what the players come up with to induce this complexity, to have this emergent behavior. Instead, it could have the opposite effect. If the system is complex to begin with, it will be much harder to iterate upon it. So I think Simplicity is a very...

00:16:14 important pillar.

00:16:17 With that said, let's go to a short talk on the monetary framework. And also it's very relevant because a lot of questions, I think, although I don't remember them all, had a lot to do with currencies. And you players seem to be very interested in currencies. These are the exhaustive options. It's the partner system.

00:16:46 It's the non-token, or non-chain, off-chain single currency, which is the general case for video games. We have on-chain single currency, or we have multiple currencies. And the multiple currency case is the most popular with Web3 games. And the single off-chain is the most popular with Web2 games. And we will consider...

00:17:15 These are the top contentors, let's say. We have this single kernel system, this is only Eve, and we have a dual kernel system with Eve and Lux, with a flexible access rate, and then we have a pseudo-dual kernel system.

00:17:30 People have challenged this analogy, but I think of it like dollars and casino chips. But that does not mean I'm promoting gambling, or it could be theme park tickets, or whatever. This stream brought to you by FanDuel. Just kidding, for the sake of CCB Legal, that was just a joke. I just realized by saying it, I might cause myself some problems. So that was humor. Moving on. Flip it.

00:17:59 Please don't. But the idea is that while you're in the park or casino, whatever it is, you just need to hold the in-game currency. And if you're good enough, you can stay in the casino your whole life. You don't need to change it to dollars. The public can buy beverages and food at the casino, if it's a good casino.

00:18:30 Ultimately, we just want people to play Frontier and enjoy it. And that's what we're trying to design here. It's just, I want to be able to play E-Frontier and enjoy E-Frontier and everything that we're doing is based around that, this core principle.

00:18:56 Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja. Ja, ja, ja. Ja, ja, ja. Ja, ja, ja, ja. Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja,

00:19:25 The economic stability part, I've gotten some pushback on this word that I tend to use, it's very common in economics, not very common in video game companies, and it's exogenous shock absorption. It just means unexpected events that happen outside of what we are modeling, in this case E-Frontier.

00:19:52 Es ist wie die E-Frontier-Economie die Schocken absorbt. Das ist sehr wichtig für Economic Stability. Although ich möchte sagen, dass Economic Stability ist nicht so... Wenn wir nur Economic Stability wollen, würden wir einfach nur den Spiel verlassen. Und wir haben Zero Volk. So es ist nicht so... Das Stable System ist das, was es nicht so... Ja, genau. So, diese sind nicht so...

00:20:22 Es ist wie, dass sie die gleiche in allen anderen Bereichen sind.

00:20:30 ...which has less instability, would be the way it uses. And also, I think the Vision Conformity part is very important... ...that we design the system such that it conforms to the plans... ...and there's a time-consistent plan to take us from now to the future.

00:20:58 A very short aside on the economic analysis part, I think these are just the way I do things and the way I think economics should be done is that we need to start with equilibrium analysis, find out whether it exists, if so, what it is, how does it change over time, and then there's dependencies.

00:21:26 The dependencies can take a few forms. You can either think of it as how does one equilibrium depend on another equilibrium, but how does the resulting equilibrium depend on the initial conditions? It's called path dependence of equilibrium. And so that's why it's important that the way we set up the initial conditions will, I think, determine what the equilibrium conditions will be.

00:21:54 Und wenn wir dann mit dem, das ist relativ schwierig zu machen, dann machen wir die Desequilibrium-Analysis. Das heißt, wie wir sehen, wie die Schocken propagieren durch die Systeme. Wenn ich mich sehr über das gedacht habe, dann compare die Systeme und decide. Und das ist was ich habe gemacht. Das ist ein Fan-Favorite.

00:22:23 Ist das die Simplicity? Ich war ein Englisch-Major, so ich entschuldige, aber oh Gott. Okay, go ahead. Ja, so this is actually an extremely simplified version of the economy. Okay. But what I think is good about this is that the Simplicity comes when you look at just the faucet and the sinks.

00:22:53 This is where we use the pseudo-dual currency system and the lenses are priced denominated in tokens. It's probably the better way to say it, that the price is denominated in tokens or on-chain currency. Then you can see that it's much easier to control the flow of currencies through the system because we have only one

00:23:22 A large faucet and one large sink. This is very similar to the central bank type of monetary policy, where you have one interest rate. Here if we fix either the faucet or the sink, we have a sinker price that determines the total volume of currency in the system.

00:23:44 If we go to the Dual Currency, then we see we need two faucets, and we need to find a way to increase the sinks of the Lux here, if you compare it to the earlier diagram. And there's an... I don't want to interrupt, but just to... No, it's fine.

00:24:07 Ja, ja, so, and there's a, and the monetary policy becomes extremely difficult

00:24:36 Just by that, if you look at the gray box in the middle, that now the exchange rate between Lux and Eve is flexible. So when we adjust the faucets, we actually don't know, it's very difficult to know, what is the impact on either the volume of Lux or volume of Eve in the economy.

00:24:58 So, if we go by the simplicity pillar, you would definitely choose the pseudo dual currency instead. And then, of course, you have all the other... We have this kind of diagram for all the systems. And this is probably the most... This is the simplest of all. But, okay, so this is actually the worst diagram, but...

00:25:27 I'm going to take you through it. It's what happens if there's the exchange rate spike in the on-chain currency, ETH, and how it impacts by known players and players.

00:25:47 This will give us insight into how to structure the lens pricing and the cursor system. Because you see, if you look at the arrows going to the non-players first, there is an influx to earn, because now it's more valuable to play the game if you're going to do that, if you're going to play to earn, not to play to have fun. But on the other hand, there's better to entry, because...

00:26:14 The tokens are priced, the lenses are priced in tokens. So you need to pay more for the tokens to get in. Well, then you become a player and the player will either increase their PVE, which means just try to get more feral data, or it will reduce their PVE. And this is determined by the substitution effect and income effect.

00:26:41 Und die Monitoring-Policy ist, dass die Prices sind und die Rewards sind. Und die Substitution-Effekt und Income-Effekt sind extrem wichtig in Ökonomik, speziell wenn es um Wagen gibt. Und da gibt es eine sehr famous Labor-Supply-Curve, die aufwärtslöpft, das bedeutet, dass Menschen mit einem hohen Income, wenn sie ihre Wagen haben, arbeiten weniger.

00:27:10 So, it's not... Well, it is. Most people, like, if I told you that if I lower the price of a good, you would think that people would buy more of it, right? That's a substitution effect. So, it means that with labor, it is not as simple. So, high earners do not increase their labor when they get higher wages. So, we can adjust this effect. We can...

00:27:39 Mit User Monitoring Policy we can adjust how much comes through substitution effect and income effect. And then you can see that most of it we have sell pressure on almost all sites except the initial influx of players through the token purchases.

00:28:01 So, what happens is that you get a spike, token valuation spike, but all the forces are making it depreciate to compensate, which means we have a healthy system that does not have a feedback loop in it, but the big problem here is barrier to entry, because you could have, if the token value spike is large enough,

00:28:28 Es ist unmöglich für die Leute zu kaufen. So, dann benutzt man Hybrid-Pricing. So, wenn man eine Ceilin hat. Das ist eine Lösung. Das ist eine Lösung. Wenn man eine Ceilin auf den Lensprices hat, ist es, wenn die Token Valiation hoch genug ist, kann man einen bestimmten Fiat anbieten. Und was gut ist, ist, dass das Arbitrage gibt.

00:28:55 which essentially controls the token valuation spike. So the probability of the token valuation spike becoming high enough for barrier-to-entry to become an issue will decrease significantly just because of the existence of the ceiling.

00:29:16 So, yeah, but there is also like this new equilibrium. I'm not going to go through that as a, it's even more complicated. So it's just the result of this system, this Tokamailer spike is in new equilibrium, which it depends on multitude of factors.

00:29:39 So, a few dangers of creating a currency system. So, we just went through token valuation volatility, the barrier to entry, and then there's a dead spiral due to high price elicidive demand. So, this is a function of platforms in general, which have network effects. They tend to have a much higher price elicidive demand.

00:30:07 und auch die assistance von Time Rich Players. So, in bestimmten Kombinationen von Connery Systems und Lens Pricing, kann man eine Situation, wo ein Shock, Exhaustion Shock, wird die Preis erhöht, in so eine Weise, dass Time Rich Players nicht in der Game gar nicht genug können. So, they will leave.

00:30:35 which will decrease the utility for other players, which then might also leave, and then you get this death spiral. So it is critically important to do this correctly.

00:30:51 So the problem statement, essentially, is we want to promote simplicity, token utility, stability, vision conformity, and avoid feedback mechanisms and behavior distortions. And the solution I propose, at least, we'll see what happens, is that we have a pseudo-currency, a pseudo-dual currency, it's a monetary framework with hybrid pricing.

00:31:18 Escapes the better advantage problem, it's relatively simple. We have the Cryptoskeptics, which I sympathize with immensely, can play the game and have positive effects on others. It aligns incentives, builds trust, handles depreciation extremely well, because that eventually means that the game is cheaper when the token depreciates.

00:31:46 Und es conforms zu der Long-Rund Vision. Ja. Ich denke, das ist ein wichtiger Punkt. Das war ein paar Jahre später, in ein Founder's Access Stream. Und ich denke, es ist eine super-elegant Lösung. Wenn die Preis kraters, dann machte die Barriere für Entry into die Game...

00:32:11 Das bedeutet, dass es viel cheaper ist. Es bedeutet, dass es mehr Leute in den Spiel kann, und es bedeutet, dass es ein Set Floer ist. Es bedeutet, dass es ein Set Floer ist. Es bedeutet, dass es mehr Leute in und dann starte zu spielen. Und dann, als mehr Leute in den Spiel starte zu spielen, dann wird es größer. Dann wird der Preis inevitably starte zu bekommen. Und also, ich denke, es hilft uns, weil wir können etwas von der Ökonomie ausbauen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen, um zu helfen.

00:32:40 useful aspect to have. Yeah, but I want to say this is just on the margins. So these are like you're describing marginal users. Marginal users not in the common parlance. It's like in an economic sense. Because people that play the game, there can be extreme volatility in the token valuation and they have no idea. They can just play the game.

00:33:08 Ich denke, das ist extrem wichtig, dass die Leute nicht mehr über die Spekulatoren oder jemanden mit einem Unchain Asset beschäftigt, dass es ein slightes Veränderungsverhältnis gibt. Es ist wie, dass einige Aktivitäten sind eher lucrative als andere. Diese kinder Dinge.

00:33:37 Aber sie können nicht wissen, ob es eine Token Valuation oder eine andere Schock ist. Es könnte literally sein, wie ein Unemployment Schock in Indonesien. Das könnte auch passieren.

00:33:57 So I believe we have some questions. Is this the time we go to those, CSP Jotun? Yes. I did see someone in Twitch chat actually refer to E-Frontier as a PvE game, being player versus economy. And I've written down in my notes to CSP Goodfellow, I'm like, no, it's actually a PvE v PvE, player versus environment versus player versus economy. Yeah. Nice.

00:34:23 Versus Server in some cases. I mean, to CCP Kalaira's point earlier, like, getting this right is pivotal. Because we want to do this for a long time. Evenline has been running for over two decades now. So that is the ambition of CCP with its games. And that's also why we're showing it now and getting in questions already from the community.

00:34:48 MegaShare, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. MegaShare in chat just brought up and just made an interesting point. Something that we say a lot, I want to make sure it gets repeated everywhere, which is the crypto in games is obviously heavily stigmatized. There are a lot of good reasons for this. I think we can all agree. And then for it to be accepted needs to be completely invisible to the average player. Would you say, CCP Kalira, that this is what we are aiming for?

00:35:13 Ja, ich denke, dass es sehr gut ist. Ich denke, dass es viele Gründe sind. Ich bin nicht sicher, dass sie alle sehr gut sind. Aber ich denke, dass es wichtig ist, dass wir keine Spielstylen haben. Ich denke, das Spiel ist ein Spiel. Ich denke, das Spiel sollte sicherstellen. Ich denke, das Spiel sollte sicherstellen. Aber wir müssen die Ökonomie, dass viele Spielstylen...

00:35:42 Und besonders, wie du gesagt hast, der average Spieler sollte, ich will nicht sagen, dass es sich selten von es ist, aber wenn er sich nicht interessiert, dass er nicht interessiert hat, dann sollte es nicht impact werden. Es würde, wahrscheinlich, durch die mehr wir haben Smart Assemblies haben, und die mehr wir haben, das kind of stuff haben. Ich meine, es ist on-chain. Du musst mit dem Chain interactieren, aber es ist nicht notwendig.

00:36:11 Es ist ein guter Topik als auch. Wir sollten eine Technologie-Stream für den Twitch-Site erklären, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun, was wir tun.

00:36:32 All sorts of cool stuff, but like crypto scam, like this is the worst crypto scam in history, if it were one. We have been busting our ass for three years now, working on...

00:36:44 Ja, ich weiß nicht, dass Leute wissen, was die Goal der Scam ist. Die Goal der Scam ist, ich weiß nicht, dass ich nie einen vorher schon habe, das ist all hypothetical. Für legal purposes, CCP legal, bitte, das ist alles für humor. Die Goal der Scam ist, generell zu machen, um, und das braucht, uh, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr, ihr.

00:37:13 Ja, ich bin scammed dann auch. Das ist was es. Das ist was es. Der Scam war specifically gegen CCB Kalina.

00:37:24 One of the things I'm excited about, just to answer that question directly, like some of the things it brings, and I've got a whole presentation on this that perhaps we can do on stream sometime, is if you look at EVE Online and the rise of third-party developers specifically, almost every single group in EVE Online, or even individual players, you're probably using some sort of third-party tool that interacts with the EVE API in some way. In fact, right now there's around 3,500 different applications hitting the EVE Online API almost a billion times a day.

00:37:54 um which is an insane number of requests and um small alliances big alliances individuals corps killboards pytha uh like eve mon uh jave assets janus all these different tools that we all use every day they pull this api and this is the reason why these big groups are able to organize like organize they run using external third-party tools are developed by players whether using things like alliance auth for example to manage your alliance and then using plugins to

00:38:24 und die Discord-Discord-Rolle sind, alles mit einem Read-Only-System. Und dann gibt es das, und dann gibt es die Leute, aber auch die Aspekte zu machen, die wir nicht stoppen können. Wir können nicht sagen, hey, nein, Sie können nicht in und machen das. Wenn Sie wollen, und Sie haben die Möglichkeit zu machen, dann können Sie in und bauen diese Dinge, die in die Art der Bühne spielen.

00:38:47 The closest example was probably things like Wormhole Space in EVE Online, simply because Wormhole Space was almost completely uncolonizable when it was built, but people have developed tools, mappers, systems that allow them to actually live in that space. You can't really live in Wormhole Space without party tools. So think of it like that. That's how I like to think of it, at least. Yes, think about Wormhole Space, friends. The best space in EVE Online. Wormhole Space...

00:39:10 Except 20,000 systems, and it's total hell death. It is. Several times. We're getting a little bit off track, but it's fine. This is okay. My last soapbox thing I'll say is people talk occasionally about the differences, and I like to think that if you really step back and have a look at it, EVE Online is this grand, ridiculous space opera. It's a game of excess, wealth, like the universe. Right lights.

00:39:34 Es gibt trillions von civilians, die dort leben. Die Kapsuleers sind demigods, sie sind deathless. Es ist ein wirklich futuristisches...

00:39:43 Excess space opera. And then Eiffel 2 is taking that, flipping upside down, and it is just this desolate wasteland where civilization used to exist. It is not for the faint of heart. It's a survival game where you're picking through the wreckages of ancient structures looking for one particular small item or some things to help you survive and try and rebuild the core of civilization itself. Hell yeah.

00:40:10 Okay, well, let's go ahead. We got about 25 minutes left allocated and I have questions from the community. Okay, so these questions were submitted by our founders. Third time, shout out founders. Appreciate you guys doing this. So we asked in general what people had questions about with regards to the frontier economy. I think we probably touched on some of these already, but we're going to go through them. There are tons. We're not going to get to everything. I can guarantee it. And thankfully,

00:40:40 Ja, so...

00:41:09 Und das ist eine der Dinge, die Innovation und die Simplicity zu tun. Ich wirklich wollte es ein Player-Created-Currencies.

00:41:22 Ich bin sehr glücklich, zu sehen, welche Courage dominieren und warum. Ich denke, wie die Courage-Exchange funktioniert wird. Ich hoffe, dass die Spieler das sich selbst lösen. Das ist durch Smart Contracts oder wie sie das machen. Das ist die Innovation-Driven-Driven-Driven-Driven-Driven.

00:41:51 Ich bin eigentlich confident, dass sie ein guter Job machen können als wir können. Ich denke, es ist ein Teil der langfristige Sicht. Ich denke, von meinem Perspektive, wir versuchen unsere Besten, mit dem wir in Frontier machen, zu gehen zu den ersten Prinzipien und Wissenschaften.

00:42:16 Und das ist etwas,

00:42:43 You could, for example, so as I mentioned, way more star systems, over 120,000, and many of them, most of them, basically all of them, are disconnected from the others. And maybe you want to build up your gate network, but you want to let other people use it. And it's sort of like, imagine if you're driving around in toll roads.

00:43:03 Let's just say United States of America. You're driving around toll roads in United States of America. You pay with your US dollar to go through the toll roads, and this is fine. And then you drive into Canada, and then suddenly you need to pay with Canadian dollars, because there's different people operating the roads. So you can think of it sort of like that, except you...

00:43:21 Maybe, who can say? I have a follow-up question. So when we're talking about...

00:43:36 Token generation and players being able to create currency, what kind of control are players going to have about their, like, what kind of control they're going to have about when and how they issue tokens? Like, this is a whole, typically, whenever this happens, it's like a whole big event. It's planned out well in advance. If we're allowing players to do that, are there any kind of restrictions on that? Are there any kind of throttles that we have to, like, have our hand on? No. I think, actually,

00:44:02 Es ist sehr wichtig, dass sie vollständig kontrollieren. Ich denke, es ist eigentlich nicht ihre Geld, wenn sie nicht kontrollieren. So die Part hier ist, wie sie es zu linken, wenn sie es ist, wenn sie es zu linken, zu in-game events und all das kind. Ich würde sagen...

00:44:26 In the long, long run. In a lot of these questions, we need to actually think about it. Is it a short term question, medium run, or long term? So for the long term, just probably any event in the world, they can link their issues to. In the short term, it depends on what we are linking to the chain. And there is a delicate balance, I think, on deciding what would be on chain and what would be off chain.

00:44:55 Jetzt, in der spirit, dass wir das mit den Leuten machen können, Sie sind bereits in unserem Umgebnis zu entwickeln, Ihre eigene TRIBE-TOKEN und experimentieren mit es und geben uns Feedback auf das alles. So, Menschen können jetzt, sogar CGP Goodfell, der Notorious-Bad-Engineer sagen.

00:45:17 Das funktioniert nur als er die Gaits und man hat diese Gaits und man hat diese Gaits

00:45:46 Und dann wird es sich um, dass er alle diese Gäste an und dann geht's. So, vielleicht wird er eine Guarantee, und dann wird es ein Trust-Thing. Und manchmal kann es sich an Assets-In-Games geben, manchmal kann es sich, hey, du bist mein Freund, ich werde dich in. Und wir tun das auf ein Dichter-To-Day-Basis in vielen Corporations-In-Evonline, zum Beispiel SRP-Programm, die sozusagen sehr ähnlich funktionieren, wo man es basiert auf ein paar Leute zu handeln. Und du kannst...

00:46:14 Basically automate this, decentralize this, and let other people trust you by seeing the rules that you're enforcing. Sure. There was one more follow-up to that one, just very quick. And this is, I guess, privacy peculiar. How do player-created custom currencies impact trade efficiency and market competition in the frontier? In other words, I guess, do we foresee a future where some currencies just body out other currencies? Hopefully. Yeah.

00:46:41 Hell yeah. Yeah, that's how you want to work. So actually, there will definitely be, the more that the player-created currencies will dominate the CCP-created currencies, you will probably get some initially trade decreasing trade efficiency. But usually what happens is that when you have these kind of increased costs, the goal of the issuer...

00:47:10 und das auch mit Firmen zu tun, ist es zu reduzieren, die Kosten für alle. Und es gibt ein paar Dinge, natürlich ist es nicht die einzige Sache, aber die Tribe, die die Kosten zu reduzieren, wahrscheinlich haben sie eine Upper Hand. Ich freue mich wirklich auf all diese Kompetitionen. Wie will sie sie compete? Will sie sie compete in Kosten? Will sie sie mit der Linken? Was ist die Banking?

00:47:38 What services the currencies provide. And I think actually it will give us a lot of information or like it'd be a nice study to see what currencies dominate and what are their properties for just real life. For let's say, of course this is not new because there have been a lot of like free banking episodes throughout history.

00:48:01 But in our modern world, there are other currencies that are not issued by governments. And we could maybe predict which currencies will dominate based on this experiment that happens in the frontier. Sick as hell. I want to do the next question, especially because this is one that I think you said should have been on.

00:48:23 In your hiring process, this question should have been asked. So shout out to whoever hires, to be clear, for not coming up with this question. And the question is, how would you introduce a new currency in a small barter-based clan economy?

00:48:42 Ich denke, es wird sich überlaufen. Ich werde mich überlaufen.

00:48:59 Die Barterer-System ist sehr interessant in vielen manchen. Ich habe viele Menschen erzählt, dass die Prisno-War-Camp ist, einer meiner Lieblings-Ekonomik-Papier. Sie hatten Prisnoer aus vielen anderen Ländern, und weil die Frenchmen mehr von den Englischmen haben, sie mehr von etwas anderes haben, und sie wollten Barterer.

00:49:27 So they came up with some way of partnering, some medium of exchange. And then you need to think about what is the property of a good medium of exchange. I mean, the first medium of exchange needs to be something that is in demand. It needs to be something that some people want. But there needs to be a lot of it. Because it's very difficult, because it needs to be the lowest denomination. Sure, yeah.

00:49:56 Aber es kann nicht so schnell werden. Es ist eine sehr schwierige Situation. Aber in prisons, in prison of war camps, sie können nichts machen. So cigarettes sind sehr gut da. Aber das ist das gleiche Prinzip, das funktioniert in olden oder historischen Ökonomies. Ja. Aber es ist eine Evolution. Es ist schwierig.

00:50:23 für den Poet zu kommen. Es ist sehr schwierig, den Front-Door-Mann zu hören zu hören, so ich kann es auch sehen. So wir wollten ein System, aber wenn es klein ist, es wahrscheinlich nicht wert ist.

00:50:44 So you would probably just keep with the... I know that there's some history of using shells. People used... Caps in Fallout. Bottle caps. Yeah. But then there's no production in Fallout. The problem is that if it's easy to produce and you get a huge inflation problem, people don't know the worth of their cap that they're holding.

00:51:12 So, but I mean, then you get an evolution and you try to find, we found a way of minting through gold and metals. And now we are like in this digital era that we can use like cryptography and stuff like that. So that's at least how I would start. I would start with just using what is at hand. I think it would not be worth the cost to try to create

00:51:42 Let's move right ahead. The next one came to us from... Oh, that last question was from Nox, by the way. Shout out to Nox. Next one was from Grunt. Wants to know, how does the integration of blockchain tech and the real-world value of these EVE tokens affect the in-game inflation and marketability frontier? I think you may have already touched on this. But if you want to simplify it real quick.

00:52:08 Ja, so I think, I have touched on this, but I think what the blockchain enables is like this enforcement of time-dependent arrangements has historically been extremely difficult.

00:52:30 Many religions actually have usury sin. So this has also been very controversial. But the problem is usually that enforcement is difficult. And so historically only governments have been the lenders. But if you want to have a thriving lending system, you need some enforcement and you need collateral.

00:52:58 And I think one of the reasons, even online, why it was extremely difficult to have a banking system is it was almost impossible to enforce violations to the contracts. But the good thing about blockchain is we can automate that process with smart contracts and you can introduce collateral. Like in all theory of lending, collateral is the single most important thing to make a lending market work. We can do that in the blockchain. And this is like a domino effect because as soon as you have

00:53:28 You have established that culture, which is inherited from a blockchain technology, you get a lot of financial instruments and a lot of complexity arises from that. I think people underestimate the complexity just by this, that in the financial system, inside the game, that will emerge. Just by introducing this ability to...

00:53:54 Write smart contracts that depend on actions in the game. Sure.

00:54:00 Hell yeah, I'm down for that. Alright, next one up. I like this question a lot because I'm familiar with all these words in here. This one comes from Micronova. Wants to know, can you discuss your goals for how the markets will look in regards to NPC orders and other supports six months after launch? What would be ideal one year on and will NPC orders be able to affect the blockchain?

00:54:30 Ja, auf die letzte Frage. Okay, sicher. Aber die anderen Fragen bevor das auch. Ja, die View ist, dass... So, according to the Pillar, Player-Driven Pillar...

00:54:49 My view, at least, is that this should be a player-driven market. That we want the players to be the arbiters of price and dominance in the market.

00:55:04 Ja, ich denke, um die Kommentare zu dem Economist zu sagen, er erklärt es sehr succinctlich und ich totale agree. Das ist ein Spiel-Deming-Game und will-be. NPC, Buy und Sell-Orders helfen mit der Cold-Start-Probleme von der Economy. So, das ist der Grund für sie. Und dann die Spieler, als sie besser auf der Scale sind,

00:55:33 crafting items and trading, they will easily be able to undercut the NPCs and take over the world itself. This is just a way to get the economy going. Okay. From my part of it, just I'm sorry, on the NPC thing, it's about also data generation for understanding. So when there will be adjustment, for example, in resource distribution or whatever,

00:56:02 any adjustments to the world we want to know what will happen beforehand so we need to make sure that data is good essentially that the npc's purpose uh let's move to the next one um actually i changed my mind because you've already talked about the next one um let's see here okay this is actually a great question because this is uh something people talk about a lot

00:56:28 With regards to Eve, this question comes from Vicaris Grunt, and yeah, just those two. Wants to know, how can the game design prevent economic stagnation and address wealth inequality in a player-driven market where some players have years of accumulated assets? Will decay have effect on large stacks over time? This may be more of a game design question, too, but I'm curious what you guys' thoughts are.

00:56:58 Ja, so on the wealth inequality question, I think we should not have an opinion of what is the correct distribution of wealth. Sure. At least I don't know the optimal distribution of wealth. I will probably not know it in the future as well. But there is something to be said about like

00:57:26 Wenn es in Currency ist, dann kann man es inflate. Aber wenn es in Items ist, dann muss man es sein. Aber ich meine, es gibt Digital Physics in der Game. Das ist die Pillar des Game Designs. So, es sollte einen Kosten sein.

00:57:50 So I guess the question then is more like, what is your wealth in, right? Because if your wealth is in something stable.

00:58:17 Like either a currency or in... Well, the example that's probably more apt to use would be if you want to use...

00:58:27 real life stuff and say like you can keep your wealth pretty stable if you invested into gold sure because gold is kind of a natural asset but gold has a physical property that it exists which is uh useful right and because it exists it means it has to be somewhere and i mean if you want to buy a bar gold bullion and stick it under your pillow then you're welcome to do so you will pay no storage costs maybe a bit uncomfortable when you're trying to sleep at night um

00:58:54 But then you take a huge risk that someone just comes in and nicks your gold. Sure. Most people who invest in gold are going to be putting it into, for example, strong storage places in banks. And of course, then the bank is going to pay for security. That is then enforced by police, private security forces, things like that. Possession is nine-tenths of the law. So if you want to have people... You could build a system up in Frontier where you...

00:59:19 Ich denke, es ist super gut.

00:59:45 I was just going to say, CP Overload, if you don't mind, do me real quick. Just do this real fast and then pull your hand back. Okay, never mind. You're good. Okay, we're good. Go ahead, CP Goodfellow. He just wanted to touch you. Yeah, yeah. Nailed it. But CP Overload, if you quickly talk about also fuel in relation to this and upkeep. Yeah, so everything has an energy cost in general. Like, when I, you know...

01:00:12 Bought this drink. Someone had to manufacture it. That cost power. It cost resources to manufacture. It cost people labor. And then, of course, I took it and I drank it. Everything in life can't just create things. So by building the frontier on what we call digital physics, it means that everything has some sort of energy cost. And because of that, then the more things you do, the bigger the production is. If I'm just making a little drink in my house, then my...

01:00:39 Aber wenn ich ein Faktor zu produzieren, z.B. z.B. diese Faktoren zu produzieren, dann wird die Kosten umgekehrt werden, aber die Kosten umgekehrt werden, wird es umgekehrt werden. Das ist Physik. Du kannst nicht die Laws der Physik. So, bei unschrining diese Digital Physics-Rules in den Spiel selbst, wir können sicher, dass Dinge machen. Ich kann nicht...

01:01:02 Und das ist auch noch ein paar Kosten. Aber ich kann es einfach nur machen und dann Teleporten es zu jemanden. Das würde mir viel Geld geben. So in E-Frontierer, ein Beispiel von Digital Physics, und das ist ein sehr, sehr einfaches Beispiel, ist das Atems haben Locality. So wenn ich ein Manufaktor habe, etwas über hier ist, dann muss ich es über hier sein. Das heißt, ich habe zu transportieren. Und natürlich...

01:01:23 You might want to build your war rig like you're in Mad Max with a bunch of guys on motorbikes trying to raid you because you're heading off down to Bullet Farm to just get some resources with your water. That's essentially the same analogy. They are following the rules of physics. They can't just teleport the water and the bullets back and forward.

01:01:43 So I guess the question at one point mentions decay, and we've talked about this a little bit in the past too, and it's not something we've touched on in a while, but I guess the question would be, to go back to use your example, putting your wealth in gold versus putting your wealth in bananas, right? Like if you have all of your wealth in gold, you can feel fairly confident that that wealth is going to last for a while. But if you put your wealth in bananas, I mean, it's a short wealth, right?

01:02:09 So, like, are there going to be things in the game, or do you foresee systems in the game where certain, depending on what it is, certain things may decay over time, become less valuable over time? Not because of any economic factors, but because of, like, their natural state of this is what this is, and over time it just goes bad. Absolutely. I think, I don't have any concrete examples for E-Frontier, but, I mean, use...

01:02:37 Petrol is an example. You see all these post-apocalyptic films where they're all just driving around like normal, where in fact petrol goes bad within two years. So jump forward a couple of years, none of the cars are going to run. Those guys walking dead are stuffed. So that is a decaying resource. But other things are going to continue to be stable for a very long time. Some things, in fact, will appreciate and value over time due to rarity. That's just natural.

01:03:04 Wenn sie nicht mehr machen, wenn sie einen wirklich alten Vintage-Kamera ist, dann wird es nicht mehr gemacht werden, dann wird es auch noch mehr zu kaufen. Ich glaube, ein Bottle-A-Wine ist auch ein sehr guter Beispiel. Ein Bottle-A-Wine ist auch ein sehr guter Beispiel. Ein Bottle-A-Wine ist auch ein sehr guter Beispiel. Es wird aber auch guter Worte, weil es guter Worte ist, und es geht um, weil die Leute collecten. Und hier gibt es einen Argument für jeden Fall, dass es auf dieses Green Earth existiert ist. Just zu sagen, du, CSP-Overload, hat es gesagt, dass Wiener Wiener Worte überwinden.

01:03:33 Wenn du eine 20.000$ Wein von 19.30 und eröffnst, dann wird es 20.000$, aber wahrscheinlich 99.000$, das ist wahrscheinlich ruined. Französisch. Aber zu machen es also klar für den Chat, dann...

01:03:53 The financial advice from CSP Yotan was indeed invest in bananas, as you know. Did you know there's a certain amount of bananas that if you ate enough of them you would die from radiation poisoning? It's a true fact. There's a lot of bananas. Potassium is very mildly radioactive. Listen, okay, so here's the very long and short of this. We're out of time. We've answered four questions and there were like 30 of them, so we're not going to get through the rest. What I am going to do... The economy is complex. I'm sure we can have CSP Kalira make some more diagrams.

01:04:22 Very quickly. A couple people in chat have said, like, oh, what's the point of this? Why are you making the economy so complicated? And I want you to know, I hear you. I am a simple man. I press button and get excited and then go boom, right? There is a game, like this game, like many other games, EVE Online specifically, is a game made of games. And one of those games is the most...

01:04:48 most dynamic market simulator we can come up with.

01:04:53 Das ist, ich denke, wir können alle, alle drei von uns, jemanden, jemanden, jemanden, jemanden, jemanden, jemanden, wir versuchen, eine sehr cool, interessante Market Simulator zu machen. Okay, so ich habe es gesagt, jetzt ist es canon. Wir versuchen, die Virtual World zu entwickeln. Die Virtual World hat eine Economy. Das ist eine der Puls in es. Ich werde die Banken, wenn ich es kann. Ich persönlich habe eine App mit einem großen Button auf dem, das sagt, Give the Money Away, und ich press die Button und die Money geht weg. Das ist alles, was ich habe, um es zu tun. Und wenn du, wie ich, bist du, oder eine Frau, oder eine Frau, oder jemanden, oder jemanden,

01:05:22 und du willst nichts anderes zu pressen, dann, bei Gott, du kannst das. Ja, ich möchte sagen, dass die Economies, wie es ein Finanzsystem ist, oder so. Ich meine, die Economics ist, dass die Leute, ich meine, sie haben die WANs, sie wollen etwas, und sie haben die Scarcity. Und es passiert, dass es das Tränen ist, dass es sehr effizient ist.

01:05:50 Exactly, and...

01:06:18 I think it's a super good point. And what we're trying to do is to create a framework where people can build out their base in space, attack others, create world domination, plans and failure and death. That is ultimately what we're trying to do. Hell yeah. Okay. Seriously, this time though, I promise we are wrapping this up. Okay, so.

01:06:41 These extra questions that we have, there were like, again, almost 30 of them. I'm going to hound Porsi Speakalir. He doesn't know this yet. I'm going to hound Porsi Speakalir until he answers all of them, and then we can give them to the founders. So if you want to hear those questions answered, founders, don't worry. I got you, baby. I know where this man works. Listen, Iceland's not that big. I can just find him. This is very simple. Okay, he can't run. Outside the city, it's dark and cold. It's not going to work out.

01:07:07 So we're going to get that taken care of for Founders. If you want to join that Founder Program, by the way, our marketing people would be very upset with me if I didn't do this, but eFrontier.com slash FounderAccess. Check it out. If you want to be part of the Founder Program, great. If not, I'm not your dad. I can't tell you what to do, okay? But we're trying to do something really cool, trying to do some fun stuff. If you think it sounds fun or cool or interesting or what, or maybe you just want to hear more of CCP Overload's accent, this is a place to do it. You know, bada bing, bada boom. So last thing before we go.

01:07:36 This is big news, big, big news. We are amending our NDA going forward. You are hearing it now for the first time. The NDA for eFrontier is being amended going forward. You are freely able to talk as much as you want about eFrontier with two exceptions. Those being if you're in the founder program and you've heard something that's coming up but isn't in the game yet, you can't talk about that.

01:08:02 And you can't post any videos or screenshots of the game client right now. It's not quite ready yet for public consumption. We're still building some stuff. It's a work in progress. You don't want to show off the house when it's just boards and stones. You got to see the vision, right? But outside of that, the NDA is being amended. I'll have an updated, more extensive kind of document about it here shortly. That's going to go out in our Discord. So if you're in the Discord, you can check that out.

01:08:31 Today, the Keeper startet annual.

01:08:57 so this is a great time to join my final thing is this particular stream was specifically about the economy and economic factors and stuff but

01:09:11 Our goal is to make a game where you can just come and play and have fun. At the end of the day, that's the most important part. It seems to be a good hit on this earlier on. For some of you, the fun is coming in and blowing other people up and stealing their lunch money. For other people, it's building lots of spaceships. For other people, it is playing the economic powerhouse. There's a ton of different ways to play EVE Frontier. And to do that, we want to make it a game, a game you want to play.

01:09:37 Und als Teil davon gibt es eine große Herausforderung, die diese Dinge zu tun und zu machen, dass es sehr einfach so einfach ist, dass man das Spiel spielt, ohne diese wirklich komplizierte Interaktionen, die wir heute sprechen haben. Du kannst einfach spielen die Spiel, wie du mit deinen Freunden bist, und du kannst du mit anderen Spaceshippen spielen. Das ist das Ziel.

01:09:55 So that's what I'll leave you with. Yeah, no. Great point, CSP Overload. Absolutely. And before you think like, oh, why are they spending all their time and all their resources, all these people working on this economic thing. CSP Overload is just one dude, guys. And he just got here. So like, calm down. He doesn't even know yet. He just has to do this by himself. He's alone. It's the scam. Yeah, yeah. For him, specifically. But we have a lot of other cool stuff, guys, coming up. Again, we are at the beginning of Cycle 2. We hit 2.0 today. We're still here somehow. We're making this thing happen. So far, things are...

01:10:24 Looking forward to the next couple weeks and months as we head towards some bigger stuff happening later on this year. So, until then, joining me, of course, has been CCP Goodfellas, CCP Kalira, and CCP Overload. I have been, as always, CCP Jotun. Thank you so much for joining us here for this livestream. We'll be back some point in the future to do more. These are fun, and everybody seems to like them, so we're going to do that. And in the meantime...

01:10:52 We'll see you on the Frontier, Riders. Have a lovely afternoon. See you later. Goodbye! See you later.